Bonus: One Year Anniversary Episode

Tyler Podcast Episode 32, Transcript

Our Tyler Technologies podcast explores a wide range of complex, timely, and important issues facing communities and the public sector. Expect approachable tech talk mixed with insights from subject matter experts and a bit of fun. Host and content marketing director Jeff Harrell – and other guest hosts – highlights the people, places, and technology making a difference. Give us listen today and subscribe.

Episode Summary

The Tyler Tech podcast celebrates its one-year anniversary by re-airing the very first episode, a dive into the breakthrough research into Gen Z and how they think about government. Jeff interviews Jason Dorsey of the Center for Generational Kinetics who draws out some key insights about Gen Z, how they want to engage government, and how government can better connect with this very important generation. You may also learn a little Gen Z lingo as well.

Transcript

Jeff Harrell: From Tyler Technologies, it's the Tyler Tech podcast, where we talk about issues facing communities today and highlight the people, places and technology making a difference. I'm Jeff Harrell. I'm the director of content marketing for Tyler Technologies, and I'm so glad that you've joined me. Well, believe it or not, this podcast has reached its one year anniversary. It was last summer when, during the pandemic, we launched the Tyler Tech podcast. So to celebrate, what we wanted to do was re-air our very first episode. Now this episode was the first in our four part series on the four major generations that make up communities today. So we brought in Jason Dorsey, who is an awesome speaker, an awesome interview, and an expert in generations to do this first episode. I think a lot of people are new to the podcast, have not heard this. I would love to have you hear the very first episode of the Tyler Tech podcast. This is me and Jason Dorsey talking about the groundbreaking research that we did with Jason's group, the Center for Generational Kinetics around Gen Z. I think you'll really enjoy this. How does Gen Z want to engage with government? What are some insights to help local government better engage this very important generation? Here's my interview with Jason Dorsey, and this is episode one ever of the Tyler Tech podcast.

Jason Dorsey: What we say to government leaders all the time is if you want to continue to be able to engage Millennials, Gen X and Boomers, you've got to understand what Gen Z wants to do right now, because if you don't engage and adapt to Gen Z, you could end up losing the other generations too.

Jeff Harrell: From Tyler Technologies, it's to Tyler Tech podcast, where we explore issues facing communities today in a way that's interesting and entertaining. I'm your host, Jeff Harrell, and my promise to you is to help break through the clutter and provide great information in a format that's super easy to consume and have a little fun along the way. Here's a problem we're exploring in this episode. With the rise of Gen Z, local government is now asked to serve four very different generations. You've got Gen Z on the younger end and Boomers on the older, and they are very, very different. Or are they? Well, we wanted to find out. So we conducted some custom research. And in this episode, we're going to dive into Generation Z, but first I wanted to ground everyone in Gen Z. I've got three Gen Z kids, and they've got lingo that I'm not sure is even English. So we turned to YouTube to help us learn Gen Z language. Listen to this as YouTuber and small business owner Carl Wilson and his Gen Z cousin Brock teach us how to speak Gen Z.

Carl Wilson: All right, Brock, we're going to start with some simple ones. Those are some neat shoes.

Brock: Them kicks are dripping.

Carl Wilson: I would be glad to help, but my favorite team lost.

Brock: Dudes took an L.

Carl Wilson: My favorite team lost very bad.

Brock: Dudes got clapped.

Carl Wilson: He seems upset.

Brock: He little mind.

Carl Wilson: He seems very upset.

Brock: He big mind.

Carl Wilson: I like this music.

Brock: That's a bop.

Carl Wilson: I'm not lying.

Brock: No cap.

Carl Wilson: I'm sorry that happened to you.

Brock: Oh, that's an interesting statement. Weird flex, but okay.

Carl Wilson: I'm not a fan of these appetizers.

Brock: These apps are booty.

Carl Wilson: I completely agree with that statement.

Brock: Facts. It's like when fam comes slipping in with their dripping swag gem to some sick bop. And no cap, you know these facts are about to be a little fresh to death. You're like, okay. I'm not bigging out that big a response. I don't get it.

Center for Generational Kinetics

Jeff Harrell: Well Carl, I'm not sure I understand either, which is exactly why we turned to the experts and conducted custom research with the Center for Generational Kinetics. You're going to love this interview with CGK President Jason Dorsey. Well, Jason, man, we are excited to have you here today and we are excited to partner with you and the Center for Generational Kinetics. Could you tell us a little bit more about you and CGK?

Jason Dorsey: Yeah, sure. Thanks so much. Really glad to be here with you and talking about such an important topic. At the Center for Generational Kinetics, we are all about separating generational myth from truth. So much of what is said about generations is just simply not accurate, but it's great click bait headlines on social media or people talk about it publicly, but it's not grounded in data. And at CGK, we are all about research to separate myth from truth through data, specifically looking at the behavioral drivers by generations. For example, in our relationship, we're trying to figure out what really drives what's true about how different generations engage with government. At CGK what makes us different, we've led research and worked with more than 700 clients around the world. I've been on more than 200 television shows, written some best selling books, and most importantly, I just love digging into the data and figuring out what's really going on so leaders can make more informed, more accurate decisions. Just fired up to be here with you today. This is going to be a great conversation.

Jeff Harrell: Yeah, it's going to be awesome. We are talking about Gen Z today, but I thought just in the full disclosure, that we should probably let everybody know what generations we fall into. So Jason, you're a Millennial. So I would say to you, hey, thanks for being here. Here's your trophy. I am Gen X myself. So you would say to me?

Jason Dorsey: Stop being so skeptical.

Jeff Harrell: Touche.

Jason Dorsey: I do want to just point out again, I'm a Millennial here, but I was actually on time for the webinar. I was on time. I was prepared and I do have the questions and research in front of me. So maybe what we hear about Millennials isn't true, but I do fully accept the trophy.

Defining Gen Z

Jeff Harrell: Well, awesome. Well, we're not talking about Millennials or Gen X today. We are talking about Gen Z. How would you define Gen Z? What's the definition of Gen Z?

Jason Dorsey: We define this generation as being born approximately 1996 to about 2012. The reason we look at that is that Gen Z, their parents are Generation X. This is so important because in our research, what we've seen is parenting is the biggest driver of behaviors, whether that's how you view work, whether that's how you view spending, even engaging with government, so important is driven by parents. And the parents of Gen Z are Gen X and even older Millennials. So we see a very consistent and interesting parenting trend there. At the same time, Gen Z has always known smart technology. They don't remember a time before the cloud. I mean, we're interviewing students for the new book who our middle school and high school, and they're turning in everything through a variety of tech platforms. Will never turn in a printed piece of paper. This is so important because people often say, "Oh, Gen Z represents change," and we're like, "No, no, that's not true." All Gen Z is doing is bringing what they believe is normal to every environment. To them, it's not even change, it's just what is normal. So this huge generation, Gen Z, what we see is that they're already up to about age 23, 24-ish, very different view of technology, very different way they've been raised, different view of employers, and now they're coming of age right around this pandemic, and it's going to have profound implications for them. And that's why this research is so incredibly important.

Jeff Harrell: We joked around a little bit earlier about stereotypes. What would you say is the number one stereotype that is absolutely false about Gen Z?

Jason Dorsey: The biggest thing is people think Gen Z are Millennials. I don't know if you've seen in the news lately, there's been all these things. Those Millennials are on spring break from college. No, no, those are not Millennials. Those are Gen Z. Just because somebody's young, we don't call them a Millennial. So I think that's one of those stereotypes we need to just shatter. But the second is that people think that Gen Z is a continuation of Millennials, as if this generation is Millennials 2.0, and that is completely false. We've done numerous generational studies that specifically looks at Gen Z relative to Millennials, Gen X and Baby Boomers, and what we see repeatedly, we'll even see it in the data today, is that Gen Z is very different from Millennials. Remember they were raised differently, different economic environment, different natural relationship with technology. So the biggest thing is that Gen Z is not a continuation of the Millennial generation, but Gen Z is a completely different generation, which is why we have to take a brand new look at them and not bring these preconceived notions as if, oh, well this is just a more extreme version of Millennials. No, no, this group is very different. In fact, they think Millennials are old.

Jeff Harrell: Transversely then, what is the stereotype about Gen Z that is 100% true?

Jason Dorsey: I would say the biggest one is that Gen Z really does depend or rely on technology. We've all see this anecdotally. Maybe we see it with kids, some people with their grandkids, you see it out at a restaurant or when people are at the park and they're staring at their screens. What we see is that the generation has always been able to look at a screen and engage with their world. And this is true in every aspect of their life: banking, dating, education, just general information, news, you name it. So of course that's their go-to place. However, I would like to point out other generations, their go-to place was they would sit down at five o'clock and turn on the evening news and they would get all their information there, or other groups would wake up Saturday morning and watch all their cartoons, like Gen X-ers like you Jeff. So all we're seeing here is that Gen Z is exhibiting this behavior, but they're exhibiting it because it's all they've ever known. If you remember, their parents were the ones who got that tablet or the iPad or whatever it was and gave it to the kids when they were three years old, so that's all they've ever known. So they may not pick up a newspaper or a magazine or want to watch linear television, but they're absolutely going to watch 500 TikTok videos in a row, even if they're walking.

A Surprise About Gen Z

Jeff Harrell: You've done a lot of research. You've talked to a lot of Gen Z-ers. What was the biggest surprise to you when we did this research?

Jason Dorsey: We've led more than 65 generational studies around the world in a number of industries. This was a very statistically rigorous study. We're a research firm led by PhDs. We don't mess around when it comes to research. Our margin of error is plus or minus 3.1, 19 out of 20 times, which all that means is this is the gold standard for people that do research that are statistically valid. And this is a true, accurate snapshot of each generation as it relates to government and their experiences throughout the United States. I say that because what I'm about to share with you may seem super shocking, and that is Gen Z was shockingly similar to Baby Boomers. It's so fascinating because I guarantee you if we had polled a room, nobody would've guessed that those two generations were most similar, but we just saw it so consistently in the data that Gen Z and Baby Boomers had very, very similar interactions, expectations and so forth when it came to their thoughts about engaging with government. I think that's so important for leaders to know now.

Jeff Harrell: Why do you think that is? Because I saw that as well and thought they would've aligned much more with Millennials. Why do they align more with Boomers, that book end generation?

Jason Dorsey: I think it has to do with two things. One is life stage. Where Gen Z is currently, they certainly seem to think differently about things like stability, trust, loyalty, engagement, and other areas like that. I think that's really powerful because the Baby Boomers in our other research have exhibited the same characteristics. In fact, we frequently refer to Gen Z as a throwback generation, but we've never had such clear and consistent data as we have now in this study with Tyler. I think that's so powerful because for the first time it's going to give a roadmap to government leaders to understand, hey, we can't be one size fits all, but we do need to think about engagement in ways that work across generations. So I think what you're seeing here is a reflection of parenting, like we talked about. It's a reflection of their views around the world and how they interact with it. And I think that this is something that they may not grow out of. This is such a profound connection to how they think about government engagement, leadership, loyalty, and so forth, that they're likely to carry this with them and not shed it as they get older. It also means to me that government leaders are now going to have to step back and say, "Okay, we've tried a lot of different things, but many times government really is built for the people that are in power or have been, but Gen Z's coming in and they're going to bring change relative to Millennials." So, we've got to be really thoughtful. The other thing that I think is really important is that every single generation wanted to engage more deeply with government. I think that's important because I think there's this myth out there in the world that certain generations don't care about government or government leaders. They're all one big shrug or meh. But the reality is every single generation felt that there was an opportunity to drive deeper engagement with government. That's so important. I would argue maybe even it's never been more important than it is right now.

Jeff Harrell: I'll be back with my conversation with Jason Dorsey in just a moment. Hey, if you're now working from home and worried about cybersecurity, we've got a free webinar to help you understand the risks. It's called how to be cyber aware while working from home, and it's given by Max Green, one of our cybersecurity experts here at Tyler. Just go to the Tyler Tech resource center at tylertech.com and click on resources at the top of the homepage. It's free, it's on demand, so you can listen to it anytime on your timeframe. I think you'll find it super, super helpful. Now back to my conversation with Jason Dorsey. One step that caught my attention is that 62% of Gen Z, remember these are people up to 24 years old, 62% say they have had a positive experience with local government. That's the highest of any generation, yet they've had fewer interactions with local government than any other generation. Was that surprising to you like it was for me?

Jason Dorsey: It was a surprise from a generational standpoint, but not as much of a surprise from a life stage. This is where we get into this interesting conversation about generation crashing into life stage. I always like to remind people, you stay in the same generation, you just get older. So when it comes to interacting with local government, and if we think about this broadly speaking, maybe we've got 18 to 24, you could argue 16 to 24 if we take into account driver's licenses. So a lot of the interactions that Gen Z has had have been things around licenses, maybe speeding tickets, could be things tied to voting. So the threshold of the types of experiences they have had have been somewhat limited, but based on those limited experiences, they would say they've had a pretty good one. I think that also is reflective of many governments saying, "Hey, we're going to make things easier to do online." So Gen Z has really benefited from that and saying, "Hey, this is how we want to engage." We saw that a ton in the data here. The types of experiences and how satisfied other generations are is very different than Gen Z. I think that's important because other generations have had different types of experience. It could be something with property taxes or zoning or any other number of engagement related issues that they're dealing with. So they've had more complicated, I would argue, experiences, and at the same time, they've tried to engage in the way that's comfortable for them and not had as good of experiences as Gen Z has had up to this point. So this is one of those stats that we really want to watch over the next five years, because if Gen Z continues to stay satisfied, then they can represent that new normal, which is incredibly, incredibly exciting for governments to drive that deeper engagement.

Jeff Harrell: Another interesting statistic I saw here was that 83% of Gen Z say that local government serves them well, but only 64% say that local government engages them well. So they're saying they serve them well, but they don't engage them all that well. What do you think the difference is there?

Jason Dorsey: There's a subtle difference between service and engagement, and that's why our researchers wrote these questions as separate questions. So, service means I've got an issue. I've got a problem. I've got a question. I'm going to reach out to you and then you're going to help me. There's some relationship there that's going on. Engagement means staying in touch, keeping me informed, whether or not I have a need at that specific time. And many in Gen Z, as we saw, they do not feel like their government is engaging them. Whether that's sharing information in a way that they can easily get, asking their opinion on ideas, trying to get them to participate, which we think is a really big deal. We certainly saw that in voting when we look at Gen Z. So in terms of serving my needs, yeah, they sort of get done what I need. And if I have a question, I can reach out to them. And Gen Z would say based on their experiences, that's true. Now remember, they haven't had a lot of the local government interactions that older generations have. So as a result, they don't have as many negative experiences. This number may come down over the next five to 10 years. On the flip side, that engagement number is totally one that governments can drive up, just based on leveraging different technology that better fits how Gen Z wants to communicate and wants to engage. Because what we know from other studies we've done is engagement is really about communication. And that's what I think we're seeing reflected here.

Gen Z and the Government

Jeff Harrell: We did ask, how would you describe your feelings about local government? And 42% of Gen Z were neutral, so there's a lot of apathy. Do you think that should be concerning to local government leaders?

Jason Dorsey: I definitely think it should be concerning because we certainly don't want this to be the high water mark. That would lead to lots of problems later on. So what we want government leaders to see is that Gen Z is not a lost generation. And this idea that young people maybe just aren't interested in local government or government in general, I think that's just a false narrative. It's something that people have painted with a broad stroke for a long time. What we're seeing here is they're not feeling engaged. They're neutral about it. It's not necessarily negative. We only got 20% negative. That means that we've got 80% that are neutral or at least something positive about it. So to me, this is a huge call to action for government leaders to engage this generation right now, and the key is to use channels, as we know, that really connect with them, that's natural for them, to find issues that we know are really important for them and to engage them, involve them in the solutions of that. Make them feel like they're part of it, and this is not something that's just being told to them. All of which are entirely possible. All of which can be done at scale, primarily through technology. It's just choosing to do that. I would argue, this has never been more important because Gen Z does represent the future, and Gen Z for the first time is driving trends from the youngest to the oldest in terms of how they use phones, messaging, social media, you name it. So what we say to government leaders all the time is if you want to continue to be able to engage Millennials, Gen X and Boomers, you've got to understand what Gen Z wants to do right now, because if you don't engage and adapt to Gen Z, you could end up losing the other generations too.

Jeff Harrell: Gen Z said the number one barrier to engaging local government was that it feels frustrating. Is that why they're saying that?

Jason Dorsey: Absolutely. We're always trying to understand Gen Z's view of the world, how they just generally look at the world around them, how they interact with the world around them, their expectations of the world around them. And then also future looking. When we talk with Gen Z, when we see things like frustration around engagement, for example, many times when it comes to large organizations, particularly government, Gen Z doesn't know where to start. They literally don't know where to go to even start a conversation or where to go to start to be involved, be in the know, if you will. The challenge for a lot of them is that where they would normally go, for example, it might be social media or some of these others, government may be slow to be there or may be hard to navigate. And then they go to a website with 712 different buttons to click on. That's also overwhelming. So I think many times, Gen Z really needs a clear path of where do I go? What are my options? How simple can I make this? So I can start to drive that engagement and build that momentum and that trust. I think that to me is the biggest barrier. It's too hard. Gen Z feels frustrated. They don't know where to go for help, and then they just don't engage.

Jeff Harrell: If you had to boil it down to one big takeaway for government leaders listening today, what would your one big takeaway be?

Jason Dorsey: The biggest takeaway I see as a generational researcher and somebody who's looked at lots and lots of data sets in this space is that Gen Z is a massive opportunity for government leaders, and it's a massive opportunity because Gen Z wants to engage. They're not necessarily negative. They're neutral at most. And in many ways, they actually want to drive more of these key outcomes, want to have better relationships, want to have more engagement with government. So I think the key though is doing what we've always done in terms of engagement and thinking it's going to work with Gen Z is not going to happen. Gen Z is not going to suddenly say, "I want to go meet in person." We saw that over and over in the data, or wait in line or have to drive somewhere. I mean, there's so many things that really government was just not designed to drive engagement with Gen Z. But to me, that's not a knock on government. What that really is saying, hey, this is a massive opportunity. If we want to engage this generation that has energy and creativity and all these ideas and diversity and so much more that they can bring to our communities, then this is our moment to really step up and reach out to them using particularly technology, because that's what they're dependent on, to drive that deeper level of engagement and create that greater sense of community. And I get incredibly excited about that.

Jeff Harrell: Well Jason, great stuff as always. Your trophy is in the mail, the snail mail, of course.

Jason Dorsey: Hey.

Jeff Harrell: I only use snail mail as a Gen X-er. How can people connect with you? How can they do that?

Jason Dorsey: One, I have a new book coming out this year. It's called Zconomy: How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business and What to Do About It. And then second, if you'd like to stay up to date on our research, on our insights, on the different strategies and tactics we're finding, you can sign up for my newsletter at jasondorsey.com, J-A-S-O-N-D-O-R-S-E-Y.com, and then we'll send you all the coolest stuff. Lots of good videos there too. But really Jeff, this has just been a phenomenal project to work with you on, to uncover these missing insights that government leaders need to know, and then to make it public. So thank you for choosing to do that.

Jeff Harrell: Yeah, no, this is great. This is just episode one on Gen Z. We're going to do an episode on each of the other three generations as well, so super excited about that. Jason, thank you so much for your expertise. Fun as always, and be well, my friend.

Jason Dorsey: Thanks. You as well. Thanks, everybody.

Jeff Harrell: Thanks for joining us. I really appreciate it and I really want your feedback. So please go give us a review. And also you can email me directly at podcast@tylertech.com. That's podcast@tylertech.com. Send me your feedback, questions, funny memes, recipes, whatever. I would just love to hear from you. And also make sure you subscribe. We've got lots of great episodes planned for you. On the next episode, in fact, Jason is back to talk about Millennials, and we've got some secret audio of a job interview you don't want to miss. So until then, this is Jeff Harrell for Tyler Technologies. We'll talk to you soon.